I think it will be difficult to remove bias when you ask a model to compare alternative products. The model will simply lie, as with a biased human opinion and you will need to consult multiple models for a diversity of opinion and presumably use a "trusted" model to fuse the results. Anonymity will be a key tool in reducing the model's ability to engage in algorithmic pricing.
Writers have many options to deceive their audience without outright lying.
If a journalist is given an all-expenses-paid trip to an exotic location for the launch of a new product, and they review the product and say it's great - are they lying?
If a reviewer writes an article comparing certain types of product, but their review only includes products where affiliate links pay a 10% commission - are they lying?
If a journalist is vaguely aware of rumours about newsworthy, under-reported Event X but also that their publication has a big sponsorship deal with folks that Event X makes look bad, and they don't investigate the rumours or report on them - are they lying?
If a reviewer hears a claim from X, and they report the claim credulously, without adding the context that X has a history making false claims - are they lying?
I'm using bias to mean hidden motivations to the benefit of other parties. Feel free to substitute a better word.
EDIT: actually I'm really not sure what hairs we're trying to split here. I see bias as a departure from objectivity. It can be conscious or unconscious, but when someone is selling something, it's frequently conscious and self-serving, and I believe that's referred to as a lie.
> Blocking transparent ads is not a good idea. The consequence is that you will be fed opaque ads.
Doesn't history show us you just get both?
You pay to get into the movies, then they show you adverts before the film, then the film includes paid product placement of cars, computers, phones, food, etc.
You watch youtube ads, to see a video containing a sponsored ad read, where a guy is woodworking using branded tools he was given for free.
You search on Google for reviews and see search ads, on your way to a review article surrounded by ads, and the review is full of affiliate links.
I don't buy this premise. Nothing stops a company from trying to hide ads in the first place, and plenty of them do. Ad blockers for web content have been a thing for years, and using an ad blocker has continued to be strictly a better experience regardless of how many "organic" ads are present on a page.
By removing option 2, you only leave options 1 and 3.
If the product has costs (always true), then option 1 means that there is no gratis tier. So you force companies to remove their free tier, or to make ads opaque.
If you want to enjoy a free product without paying and without ads, then do so, but don't pretend you are an activist for doing so, just pay the ethical cost instead of trying to avoid paying that as well.
This isn't complex either, the only reason you don't get it is because you don't want to get it, you want things that are gratis without paying for them, and you want the free things to be given to you on your terms, and you don't want to be guilty about it. It's easier to think of yourself as righteous than to recognize that you want to be a leech.
You've been asked before to make your points without swipes. Please make the effort to observe the guidelines. The very reason this is a place people want to discuss things is that we have the guidelines and others make the effort to observe them.
> By removing option 2, you only leave options 1 and 3.
My point is that these are not exclusive options, and in practice, most companies will not feel constrained to only pick one of them.
> This isn't complex either, the only reason you don't get it is because you don't want to get it, you want things that are gratis without paying for them, and you want the free things to be given to you on your terms, and you don't want to be guilty about it. It's easier to think of yourself as righteous than to recognize that you want to be a leech.
No, I'm arguing that because companies in practice are going to use multiple of these when they can, my attempts to influence them by keeping the door open on 2 will not have any effect whatsoever, so I might as well close the door on it.
I think you're overestimating the marginal cost of doing one of them after you've already done the other. If a company has a bunch of ad-buying customers and a bunch of transparent ads, putting together some work to make a bunch of opaque ones for the exact same customers is not necessarily going to be that hard. I don't see how you can claim that it's mathematically guaranteed that the number of customers who decide that they'd pay more to have both is not enough to make that work turn a profit.
First that i should have said correlated rather than proportional.
Second that even if there's an inverse influence, there's also a positive influence between both forms of advertisement.
But in terms of proportion I still maintain that if you eliminate one type of advertisement the ratio will become 100% of the other, which is as undeniable as it is tautological.
Ah yes, the classic "my business plan is your moral problem; you owe me your eyes on my ads because I'm the idiot giving things away for free."
People don't want ads. You imply that "if you accept ads then things will be free" but they will not. Never accept ads. Not for a free service, certainly not in a paid product. Ads exist to enable leaching in both direction in exchange for what ends up being nearly mind control. But it is two-way leaching - companies benefit without the friction of explicit payment, consumers get a service without explicitly paying via money. The downside is neither can stop the bad-incentives motivating bad actions from the other side.
Ads are a deal with the devil, and rejecting them outright is allowed via that deal, just as companies can withdraw their free service. It cuts both ways.
Please don't sneer. My comment was about as mild an ask as we ever make. We won't be adjusting anything, and indeed we'd happily turn the rate limiter off if you just respect the guidelines. This is only a place where people want to participate because we have guidelines and people make the effort to observe them. There's no reason why you couldn't be one of them. We want this to be a place where the full range of positions and perspectives can be represented and discussed, but snark and contempt just drags the place down, regardless of anyone's ideology.
Your implication that "you will be fed" other ads if you block the main ones is unsubstantiated. But even if it was true, it does not matter. Because the so-called "opaque" ads can and in my opinion should be blocked as well.
I think that in general blocking all ads is always a good idea.
The reason is that there is no negative consequence in doing so. A person has absolutely no obligation, not even an implied one, to watch or otherwise consume any ad. I think that as long as there are ways to remove or block ads, people should use them.
That being said, if the companies wish to intertwine their products with ads that are indistinguishable from the actual content and therefore unblockable, it is okay. They have the right to do that if they want.
But, in the same fashion, the customers have every right to turn away from all such products. And never consider using them ever again.
>Because the so-called "opaque" ads can and in my opinion should be blocked as well
You can't, that's one of the main purposes. Instead of having ads marked and delimited, the are woven into the content, even if you could detect them (as a plugin or gratis moderator), removing them would potentially corrupt the product. It may be a part of a joke or the plot itself.
It's simpler to do one thing than to do two. You make a choice and you do that.
Could they be doing opaque ads right now and we wouldn't know? It's possible, that will probably eventually come to light and it might have legal consequences, but sure it's possible.
But it's not a given, and your logic of "it would make zero sense to leave money on the table" is certainly not a QED, it's absolute reductionism.
Totally. I’ll get by fine without ChatGPT, and I guarantee I can go without whatever crappy products the ad network you shill for partner with. In the meantime I’ll keep blocking evey ad I can.
In fact I’d be better off. It’s interesting that the most ad laden products are often the worst for you: YouTube, social media. Whereas the good uses of time: books, art, are ad free.
I'm a shill, not of any ad network, but of the idea of respecting contracts and law, even those we don't read and click on an "I agree" box.
Consider that stallman didn't encourage followers to pirate microsoft, he encouraged boycotting and made his own alternative software and contracts.
Sounds like a better way to go about it no? Why would you want to be a part of a club that doesn't want you as a member, and to the extent it does, it develops unmarked unskippable ads mixed with content so as to keep monetizing from adblocking users.
So yeah, I'm anti adblock but not pro ads, I don't do freemium or ads myself when selling, i do use free dependencies but donor based . I guess I'd be lawful neutral?who would have thunk there's more than 2 alignments!
Once the ads are injected directly into the main response is when things get interesting.