Hacker Newsnew | past | comments | ask | show | jobs | submitlogin

Software Developers median pay according to BLS: $131,450 per year

(Source: https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/...)

Computer Programmers median pay according to BLS: $98,670 per year

(Source: https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/...)

Software developers typically do the following:

- Analyze users’ needs and then design and develop software to meet those needs Recommend software upgrades for customers’ existing programs and systems Design each piece of an application or system and plan how the pieces will work together

- Create a variety of models and diagrams showing programmers the software code needed for an application

- Ensure that a program continues to function normally through software maintenance and testing

- Document every aspect of an application or system as a reference for future maintenance and upgrades

(Source: https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/...)

Computer programmers typically do the following:

- Write programs in a variety of computer languages, such as C++ and Java

- Update and expand existing programs

- Test programs for errors and fix the faulty lines of computer code

- Create, modify, and test code or scripts in software that simplifies development

(Source: https://www.bls.gov/ooh/computer-and-information-technology/...)

 help



Still look the same to me.

Ignoring the sentence that admits they can be the same ("Programmers work closely with software developers, and in some businesses their duties overlap.").

Programmers is like a translator; somebody else came up with what to do and you're doing the mechanical work of converting words into C++.

Developer involves coming up with what to do.

Hence programmers is a lower paid position.


Programmer as defined here, in my experience, is a job that has never really existed. Sure, they've tried many times to create this divide - going back to the beginning of programming (originally considered secretarial work) - but ultimately programmer is still making many design decisions when typing out code.

Your interpretation seems like apophenia to me.

There's no functional difference between a 'software developer' and a 'programmer'. they're just synonyms that sometime pay differently.


That's not a distinction that exists in industry.

Digging back as far as I can...

Computer Programmers (1997) https://web.archive.org/web/19971111101442/http://www.bls.go...

    Programmers often are grouped into two broad types: Applications programmers and systems programmers. Applications programmers usually are oriented toward business, engineering, or science. They write software to handle specific jobs, such as a program used in an inventory control system or one to guide a missile after it has been fired. They also may work alone to revise existing packaged software. Systems programmers, on the other hand, maintain the software that controls the operation of an entire computer system. These workers make changes in the sets of instructions that determine how the central processing unit of the system handles the various jobs it has been given and communicates with peripheral equipment, such as terminals, printers, and disk drives. Because of their knowledge of the entire computer system, systems programmers often help applications programmers determine the source of problems that may occur with their programs.
Which then transitioned in the '00s to

Computer Programmer (2004)

https://web.archive.org/web/20041103085206/http://www.bls.go...

    Programmers write programs according to the specifications determined primarily by computer software engineers and systems analysts. (Separate statements on computer software engineers and on computer systems analysts, database administrators, and computer scientists appear elsewhere in the Handbook.) After the design process is complete, it is the job of the programmer to convert that design into a logical series of instructions that the computer can follow. ... In practice, programmers often are referred to by the language they know, as are Java programmers, or the type of function they perform or environment in which they work, which is the case for database programmers, mainframe programmers, or Web programmers.
and

Computer Software Engineers (2004) https://web.archive.org/web/20041110033114/http://www.bls.go...

    Software engineers working in applications or systems development analyze users’ needs and design, construct, test, and maintain computer applications software or systems. Software engineers can be involved in the design and development of many types of software, including software for operating systems and network distribution, and compilers, which convert programs for execution on a computer. In programming, or coding, software engineers instruct a computer, line by line, how to perform a function. They also solve technical problems that arise. Software engineers must possess strong programming skills, but are more concerned with developing algorithms and analyzing and solving programming problems than with actually writing code. (A separate statement on computer programmers appears elsewhere in the Handbook.)
Pre-dot com boom it was lumped together with a small call out to "application" vs "system". With the dot com boom, the more senior role of "computer software engineer" was described while the pejoratively described "code monkey" was the "computer programmer".

That distinction between the two may not exist today. However, it takes a long time for those things to change.


May look the same as a worker but if you're a corporation hiring an H1B worker the difference between computer programmer and software developer is a notable difference in the budget bylines.

In older distinctions, there were Systems Developers and Application Developers and Computer Programmers. The distinction largely was around that "Computer Programmers took the specifications from Developers and implemented them."

It feels like the intent was that "Programmers" were the ones doing the routine / lower skill tasks while the Developers were the ones that did the specification and architecture.

Those got juggled around and largely people getting listed as "Computer Programmer" is going down as the company relists them as Software Developer.

This is also part of the confusion of "Web Developer" which is also in there.

It reflects what government thought management thought title and roles were some years ago.

---

Edit: From days of old: https://web.archive.org/web/20110616142157/https://www.bls.g...

    15-1132 Software Developers, Applications

    Develop, create, and modify general computer applications software or specialized utility programs. Analyze user needs and develop software solutions. Design software or customize software for client use with the aim of optimizing operational efficiency. May analyze and design databases within an application area, working individually or coordinating database development as part of a team. May supervise computer programmers.
https://web.archive.org/web/20110531043521/http://www.bls.go...

    15-1133 Software Developers, Systems Software

    Research, design, develop, and test operating systems-level software, compilers, and network distribution software for medical, industrial, military, communications, aerospace, business, scientific, and general computing applications. Set operational specifications and formulate and analyze software requirements. May design embedded systems software. Apply principles and techniques of computer science, engineering, and mathematical analysis.
https://web.archive.org/web/20110925005933/http://www.bls.go...

    15-1131 Computer Programmers

    Create, modify, and test the code, forms, and script that allow computer applications to run. Work from specifications drawn up by software developers or other individuals. May assist software developers by analyzing user needs and designing software solutions. May develop and write computer programs to store, locate, and retrieve specific documents, data, and information.
Note that the specifying part of it isn't done by the programmers but the other roles.

... And for completness

https://web.archive.org/web/20130624010204/http://www.bls.go...

    15-1134 Web Developers

    Design, create, and modify Web sites. Analyze user needs to implement Web site content, graphics, performance, and capacity. May integrate Web sites with other computer applications. May convert written, graphic, audio, and video components to compatible Web formats by using software designed to facilitate the creation of Web and multimedia content. Excludes "Multimedia Artists and Animators" (27-1014).



Guidelines | FAQ | Lists | API | Security | Legal | Apply to YC | Contact

Search: