I'm not either. I think it may look "cool" visually but when trying to work with code with those in it, it seems odd, like that it's a single character even though it's not and it just breaks the flow
I think a big problem is the fact that many web frameworks allow you to write these kind of complex apps that just "work" but performance is often not included in the equation
so it looks fine during basic testing but it scales really bad.
like for example claude/openAI web UIs, they at first would literally lag so bad because they'd just use simple updating mechanisms which would re-render the entire conversation history every time the new response text was updated
and with those console UIs, one thing that might be happening is that it's basically multiple webapps layered (per team/component/product) and they all load the same stuff multiple times etc...
The Grok android app is terrible in that sense. Just writing a question with a normal speed will make half of the characters not appear due to whatever unoptimized shit the app does after each keystroke.
Sounds quite overengineered. CEOs have basically no idea what they're doing these days. If this were my company, I'd start by cutting 80% of staff and 80% of the code bloat.
The "very often" part is wild to me. You'd think being an engineer himself[0] he'd fix the root cause: the testing process, not work as an IC QA himself.
[0] He holds the title of Chief Engineer at SpaceX.
it's unironically just react lmao, virtually every popular react app has an insane number of accidental rerenders triggered by virtually everything, causing it to lag a lot
Vue uses signals for reactivity now and has for years. Alien signals was discovered by a Vue contributor. Vue 3.6 (now in alpha/beta?) will ship a version that is essentially a Vue flavored Svelte with extreme fine grained reactivity based on a custom compiler step.
One of the reasons Vue has such a loyal community is because the framework continues to improve performance without forcing you to adopt new syntax every 18 months because the framework authors got bored.
The React paradigm is just error prone. It's not necessarily about how much you spend. Well paid engineers can still make mistakes that cause unnecesssary re-renders.
If you look at older desktop GUI frameworks designed in a performance-oriented era, none of them use the React paradigm, they use property binding. A good example of getting this right is JavaFX which lets you build up functional pipelines that map data to UI but in a way that ensures only what's genuinely changed gets recomputed. Dependencies between properties are tracked explicitly. It's very hard to put the UI into a loop.
Property binding and proxies really didn't work well in JS at all until relatively recently, and even then there is actually a much worse history of state management bugs in apps that do utilize those patterns. I've yet to actively use any Angular 1.x app or even most modern Angular apps that don't have bugs as a result of improper state changes.
While more difficult, I think the unidirectional workflows of Redux/Flux patterns when well-managed tend to function much better in that regard, but then you do suffer from potential for redraws... this isn't the core of the DOM overhead though... that usually comes down to a lot of deeply nested node structures combined with complex CSS and more than modest use of oversized images.
It's a bit unfortunate that several calls to .setHTML() can't be batched so that several .setHTML() calls get executed together to minimize page redraws.
Yes, they do. OGs remember that Facebook circa 2012 had navigation take like 5-10 seconds.
Ben Horowitz recalled asking Zuck what his engineer onboarding process was when the latter complained to him about how it took them very long to make changes to code. He basically didn't have any.
If it's true that nobody is getting promoted for improving web app performance, that seems like an opportunity. Build an org that rewards web app performance gains, and (in theory) enjoy more users and more money.
They have no real competitors, so anything that makes the user even stickier and more likely to spend money (LinkedIn Premium or whatever LinkedIn sells to businesses) takes priority over any improvements.
Well, their lowest tier devs, they have started firing and churn a lot... combined with mass layoffs... and on the higher end, they're more interested in devs that memorized all the leet code challenges over experienced devs/engineers that have a history of delivering solid, well performing applications.
Narcissism rises to the top, excess "enterprise" bloat seeps in at every level combined with too many sub-projects that are disconnected in ways that are hard to "own" as a whole combined with perverse incentives to add features over improving the user experience.
I think linkedin is built with emberjs not react last i checked…
The problem with performance in wep apps is often not the omg too much render. But is actually processing and memory use. Chromium loves to eat as much ram as possible and the state management world of web apps loves immutability. What happens when you create new state anytime something changes and v8 then needs to recompile an optimized structure for that state coupled with thrashing the gc? You already know.
I hate the immutable trend in wep apps. I get it but the performance is dogshite. Most web apps i have worked on spend about 10% of their cpu time…garbage collecting and the rest doing complicated deep state comparisons every time you hover on a button.
> Perhaps on a related note, I've noticed that a lot of the positive talks about AI are about quantity. On the other hand, there is disproportionately very little deep discussion about quality.
and to me this is so weird, because from what I can tell, quantity hasn't been the winning factor for a very long time now
> The age at which people are most likely to land on the list is 14. But a man who liked 13 year olds when he was 14, is unlikely to reoffend at 30. What is the purpose of ruining the rest of his life for a juvenile mistake?
am I like misunderstanding or what does this mean exactly? I'm so confused. "reoffend" what kind of offense are we talking about here?
> I review one large PR from a coworker, and I need a nap.
feels like nowadays this is illegal and instead you should be running 50 agent swarms and be putting out 20 features an hour while reviewing the code via agents and .....
I don't know if I'm just not seeing something that the vibe coders do, or if it's not really that crazy?
like I'd say it's a productivity boost in some aspects, definitely. but it's not like you'd be able to get the same output unless you had years of experience and know what you're doing
and going full unsupervised agentic mode I haven't seen much benefit from that. still have to pretty much just guide em to do this and that in this way
reply