>Essentially, global communism is about controlling all the resources and leveraging them, so any country that wants to survive outside of communism has to race for resources.
I hate communism but why faslely single it out, global any group or system will want to control resources as much as possible. You seem extremely stupid to the point of believing nazism was about opposing communism fundamentally rather than antisemitism and racialism.
Again as an avowed capitalist, race is the opposite of good capitalism. I will gladly trade with anyone of any race.
Well, first you'd have to make a decent argument for why it shouldn't be singled out. You're having an immediate rejection of the idea, but why? Have you been configured to feel that?
I'm not arguing that racist motivations and beliefs didn't already exist, but the Bolsheviks were a very real cultural, economic and religious existential threat to German identity which massively amplified the validity and appeal of something like the Nazi party.
Are you arguing that's not true at all? I think that would be ahistorical.
Why would I be configured for anything, its common sense, any large powerful entity will be the same. If you think only communism attempts to control the world why is America playing oil games by invading venezuela?
It may have been a religious threat but that is not an existential threat. What do you think happens if suppose most Germans stopped believing in those fairy tales? Do they combust and die? Capitalism literally has no use for religion and nationalism. They are completely out of scope of capitalism, it is at best neutral about them, and in practice religion and nationalism are a hindrance to practicing free trade.
Of course nazis hated commies just as nazis hated any other alternative source of power, but that was hardly their main animating reason for the genocides. I don't need any "brainwashing" to know what nazis openly and proudly said about Jews and Slavs. Or what are you going to say, Poles were also "commies" which is why Germany attacked them? I think the nazi motivation part of your shtick is so beyond mentally ill it's not even worth bothering with.
I think you're a little too emotionally invested and it's preventing you from making a coherent argument.
Even if I explained the actual reasons for Venezuela, it doesn't seem like you legitimately want to know. You can be addicted to curiosity or you can be addicted to opinion, but it's hard to be both.
No you haven't explained shit for Venezuela. If you did you forgot to reply it to me, I see you have written it to someone else. There is nothing emotional about the simple fact that you are positing some utterly brain dead moronic crap out of your ass that basically goes against what nazis themselves proudly proclaimed and then whining and claiming "incoherence" instead of responding to any point.
Again its completely fucking irrelevant if you think its for a good cause or bad cause, you simply said communism wants to hoard and control everything for itself starving others.
We all know the real reason Venezuela was attacked for. Capitalism, communism it does not matter what system, anything powerful enough will want to control all resources for itself. I hate communism, I hate nazism but you give the stupidest non-reasons against it factors which are shared in any powerful system and not unique to it.
Religion and race are absolutely useless gobshite whose only physically observed function is making people kill each other, coming from this throughly capitalist person.
It's funny you say Marxism is something thats hard to imbibe unless indoctrinated from childhood, why did you leave out religion from this, marxism is merely a faulty economic system. Religion is a fundamentally wrong and violently wrong system thst encompasses the entire universe. Religion is precisely what is the first and most fundamental thing that comes to mind ehich absolutely requires brainwashing from childhood to consistently propagate.
Think of it in evolutionary terms. There is physical evolution, but there's also mental evolution, moral evolution, legal evolution and so on.
We also see education as being useful, yet education seems to not teach many critical things which we often leave up to parents. Yet, many parents do not fully teach essential morals or lessons. It wasn't that long ago that the only real kind of formal education was a sort of religious education.
Religion in a way, carries forward crystallized values that people felt were important enough. You can look at all the religions around the world and identify the various elements of how those people behave. Is the way they behave useful, logically?
Not everyone is a scientist or a computer programmer, many people do not invest heavily in their minds. We might think that religion only served a purpose 500+ years ago, because it was an inverted solution to a surveillance state, letting people police themselves from within their own minds when external surveillance apparatus was basically not sufficiently viable.
I would argue some, but not all religions, still offer value as they bring forward crystallized behaviors that serve an actual purpose.
We've all seen how easy it is for people to get manipulated, become violent, etc. That seems to happen even if they aren't religious. So, if the people who are most susceptible to manipulations are pre-manipulated into a positive format that encourages them away from violence, that doesn't sound useless.
It's true that religion has been involved in many wars, but not all of those wars were for religious ends, even if religion was used. If religion wasn't used, it might have been something else. Societal structures and law enforcement have advanced a lot since then.
No, stop trying to pull out of your bs. You said communism is something that can only exist if indoctrinated into in childhood, in a comment where you whined about religions feeling "threatened" while pointedly ignoring the elephant in the room. Just answer me a simple question in a Yes or a No. Does religion survive if it isn't indoctrinated into as a kid?
Why not, if religion wasn't available, we'd wrest one major weapon away from warmongers. They will have to search much harder to galvanize large groups of people to fight for nonsense reasons over. If they didn't have this strong identity ready made on a platter to tap into, things become much harder.
Religion is simply not worth the baggage, it posits and requires faith in the infinitely wrong. Values can be taught without religion, you don't need to be a scientist to have values. Everyone has values including atheists. I see no reason why we can't simply teach values minus religion. I don't see atheists who believe in the American constitution as a good system have by virtue of atheism any less support for it, as an example. For the tiny amount of good you may find religions have provided, on the scale of balance the bloodshed and negativity it has caused are simple far worse and not worth it. And even if you think in terms of some values religions might impart, its also again counterproductive. Almost all religions are very karen and nosy often violently so about lgbtq, so much for the values side of the equation. If a religion might be good for values, such a religion at least hasn't yet emerged.
Personally, I think you're lost in the very kind of generalizations and lack of precision that you seem to hate. You're becoming what you complain against. If you think people living that way is something to be eradicated, which you seem to, why have you become it in your own way? Is it because you're human and just as susceptible to these mistakes as anyone else?
Where did I say anything about eradication? I asked you an extremely simple question. Do you think religion survives without being indoctrinated into during childhood? Yes or No? You mentioned religion a lot and said communism doesn't survive if it hasn't been indoctrinated into, which may be correct but you ignored the elephant in the room right then and there in your own message: religion. I am not asking if you think religion is good or not. I asked a very simple question, does it survive without childhood indoctrination or does it not?
You are also making up crap about wanting "eradication" which I never wrote or said about. I simply stated facts about the vast ills religion has given us and very little to almost non-existent good. I showed you how religion is unrelated at best and an active hindrance to capitalism.
If using proxies invites invasion, then proportionally the USA should be nuked multiple tims over from the face of the earth given the mass scale of terrorism their proxies have conducted. So this proxy argument is nonsense.
> We see this "mix" in the conversation (e.g. painting the Jews in the US as not being loyal or serving foreign interests).
Nothing special about jews, dual citizens by definition have mixed loyalties, whether they be a dual citizen to Israel, Russia, Egypt, Netherlands, anywhere else.
This is another example where a perfectly general and non-jewish aspect is taken and construed to be "antisemitism".
Genes are also a nice argument. Jews have all kinds of genetic origins from Russians, Poles to Middle Eastern. Would you be saying the same thing if it was jews instead of Palestinians?
Physical attacks on jews are happening precisely because Israel is deliberately confusing real antisemitism and perfectly normal non-racist views. This gives cover to the actual antisemites. People are growing sick of giving disclaimers they condemn the holocaust, they have nothing against jews as a people, etc etc and at that point what do you think someone with less energy and willpower will do once they see an attack: bah whatever.
I think Iran gaining nukes and a strong military and reduction of US interest in Israel would mostly solve the problems. It will cause a balancing of power and Israel less willing to start random wars and violence. Iran will be a shitty country to its own people as always of course but the Israel csused chaos would mostly be reduced a lot.
Alternately Israels nukes are made legal and decommissionied and or brought to neutral third parties for safekeeping, that would significantly reduce the incentive for its neighbors to want to make nukes. As long as israel has nukes, its neighbors would never feel safe without and keep trying to build nukes.
Iran invaded the US embassy holding 52 civilians hostage, has conducted unprovoked attacks against US, Israeli and other interests for more than 40 years, regularly launches missiles into Israeli airspace, indiscriminately attacks merchant vessels in international waters, massacres and tortures tens of thousands of their own people for the crime of speaking out against their government, sponsors terrorist groups like Hamas that massacred over a thousand people including children, raped women, etc.
As for your comparisons of Israel to Nazi Germany, did the countries that Germany invaded have a history of launching rockets and terrorist attacks at Germany? Has Israel rounded up Palestinians in concentration camps and executed millions of them in gas chambers?
But you're saying it's Israel that needs to be contained and they are Nazi Germany. Ok...
> Has Israel rounded up Palestinians in concentration camps and executed millions of them in gas chambers?
Yes, jailed for years young boys and even teens without any reason. Why would they need gas chambers when traditional bombing of schools and hospitals is working beautifully and wonderfully to cull the palestinians?
I looked up the claim of seizing tankers and it seems it has only ever happened during context of other wars like with Iraq.
And you don't need to ask me, just listen to the direct words of Bibi, Bezalel Smotrich and other Israeli government representatives how they want "Greater Israel" and wish for expansionism.
You cite one example of a bad Israeli soldier and extrapolate to all of the IDF. This belies your faulty reasoning and desire to project a perspective based not on facts, but your own biases.
Again, there is no comparison between Nazi Germany and Israel. The countries Germany invaded exhibited zero aggression against Germany. In contrast, Palestinian terrorist groups launch routinely launched rockets into Israel, send terrorists in to blow up civilians, and conducted wholesale massacre and rape in the name of Allah.
Interesting that you ignore than Iran are hostage takers and murderers of their own people. After the first bombings of this war, Iranians in Iran were dancing in the streets.
> I looked up the claim of seizing tankers
I said "attacks" not just seizing. But there was seizing too.
May 2022: two Greek Tankers seized by IRGC commandos
2023: Tankers Advnatage Sweet and Niovi seized by IRGC commandos
Jan 2024: St. Nikolas seized by Iranian Navy
Apr 2024: MSC Aries seized by IRGC commandos
During the Tanker War 1981 - 1988: Iran was responsible for approximately 168 attacks on merchant ships
July 1987: Kuwait tanker MV Bridgeton struck by Iranian mine
April 1988: USS SAmuel B. Roberts nearly sunk by Iranian mine.
2019 Limpet Mine Attacks
July 2021: Iranian drone strike on MT Mercer Street
Nov 2022: Pacific Zircon struck by Iranian drone
Do you think I just gave isolated examples? I gave actual news articles because you would make up stuff and say its not real. These are part of a large trend. Its funny how providing actual hard facts, reported in Israeli media itself, gets me accused of being biased.
Palestine is a fun example. Why limit your looking back to such a short period. Let us rewind a few more decades. Israel itself is the product of violent terrorism and displacement. Israeli's are such nice people they bombed a hotel with innocent British and Arab people and then a future prime minister was from the very terrorist organization. Israel has been belligerent and violent from the very start.
> Do you think I just gave isolated examples? I gave actual news articles because you would make up stuff and say its not real. These are part of a large trend.
You're not being coherent here. What exactly is your point? Yes, you did give an isolated example. How exactly would I make stuff up and say it's not real? If IDF soldiers shooting children unprovoked is part of a large trend, surely this would be documented and reported somewhere?
> providing actual hard facts
Again, where are your hard facts that Israeli's shooting children is a large trend? You merely claiming it doesn't make it a hard fact.
The Palestinians crossed into Israel on Oct 7th, killed and raped music festival attendees, shot families in their homes and kidnapped and hid them in secret tunnels. None of these victims were remotely militant; not even lifting a rock at their murderers. They were living their lives and were viciously attacked. These are hard facts.
> Israeli's are such nice people they bombed a hotel with innocent British and Arab people
The King David hotel bombing was done by the paramilitary group Irgun. After Israel attained statehood, it outlawed the Irgun group, declaring it a terrorist organization. The World Zionist Congress also condemned Irgun's violence. Sorry, your example not only fails prove your point, it does the opposite.
As I said you beautifully ignored who started the conflict, it hardly began on Oct 7. The prime minister literally came out of irgun the terrorist group. Its a known fact.
I just gave one example, you can easily search and see how IDF loves killing children.
And what kind of trend do you need for showing the nature of a peoples who literally cheer and celebrate a rapist being freed from jail?
> As I said you beautifully ignored who started the conflict, it hardly began on Oct 7
In 1947, the UN passed the United Nations Partition Plan for Palestine. It called for a two state solution, one for the Arabs and one for Israel. Britain supported it, the Jewish Agency supported it. Everyone supported it with the exception of, you guessed it, the Arabs. The Jewish were willing to compromise. Arabs, nope.
Immediately after the Partition Plan was adopted by the UN, the 1948 Palestine War started. Guess who attacked first and started it? You guessed it, the Arabs.
> The prime minister literally came out of irgun the terrorist group. Its a known fact.
Sorry, you're getting your facts wrong again. In this list of members of Irgun, do a ctrl-f on Netanyahu and see what you get. That's right, nothing.
> And you don't need to ask me, just listen to the direct words of Bibi, Bezalel Smotrich and other Israeli government representatives how they want "Greater Israel" and wish for expansionism.
"From the river to the sea, Palestine must be free" - Palestinian chant
In a survey conducted by the Arab World for Research and Development 74.7% Palestinians agreed that they support a single Palestinian state "from the river to the sea", while only 5.4% of respondents supported a "one-state for two peoples" solution. 3 out 4 Palestinians supported the Oct 7 massacre of Israelis
Who is expansionist now?
When you have a group who's ideological goal has always been to exterminate the Jewish people and Israel, Israel must defend itself.
>When you have a group who's ideological goal has always been to exterminate the Jewish people and Israel, Israel must defend itself.
The locals didn't particularly give a shit about israel or jews until European jews began forcibly displacing them en masse. Jews lived there for centuries, sometimes treated better sometimes worse than Christians in Europe treated them.
> European jews began forcibly displacing them en masse
You'll need to support your claims with evidence or else they are just worthless.
The fact is Arabs were not willing compromise on a two state solution that Jewish Agency agreed to. (Balfour Declaration and the UN Partition Plan for Palestine).
The fact is currently, the majority of Palestinians want Israel exterminated. They still will not compromise with a two state solution. They just want to murder more Israelis.
> The King David Hotel bombing wasn't started by arabs, it occurred much before the 48 date you have given. Its clear who started shit.
So you're saying since it was the Irgun that bombed the Hotel, it's the Jews who started the Arab Israeli conflict.
Dude, get your facts straight. The 1946 Hotel bombing was against the British, not the Arabs. British administrative headquarters were housed in the Hotel and that was who the Irgun was targeting.
The Battle of Tel Hai (March 1920): Often cited as the first military confrontation between Arab and Jewish forces. It involved a clash between a Palestinian Arab militia and Jewish defenders of the Tel Hai settlement. It started when a Shiite Arab militia and local Bedouin, led by Kamal al-Hussein, entered the Jewish settlement of Tel Hai.
The 1920 Nebi Musa Riots: In April 1920, Arab residents attacked Jews in the Old City of Jerusalem during a religious procession.
The 1921 Jaffa Riots: This started as a scuffle between two different Jewish groups. Arab onlookers mistook it as an attack against Arabs and started attacking Jews.
"Dozens of British, Arab, and Jewish witnesses all reported that Arab men bearing clubs, knives, swords, and some pistols broke into Jewish buildings and murdered their inhabitants, while women followed to loot. They attacked Jewish pedestrians and destroyed Jewish homes and stores. They beat and killed Jews in their homes, including children, and in some cases split open the victims' skulls."
The 1929 Hebron Massacre: Prompted by rumors that Jews intended to seize the Al-Aqsa Mosque, Arab mobs killed 67 Jews in Hebron.
And again, you cherry pick some far right people and project them on to all of Israel. And you totally ignore the fact that early on the Jews were willing to compromise with a two state solution, but the Arabs were not willing. Today, 75% of Palestinians support the murder, rape and kidnapping of festival attendees, families and children. That plainly shows what kind of people they are and why Israel needs to defend itself.
It was a simple analogy you have confused utterly and completely. I said if we are making a WW2 analogy, then Israeli leaders openly talk of Lebensraum, so in that, Israel is the nazi germany.
Punk is not easy, they were developing new techniques and song writing approaches. Otherwise you tell me why we talk of Ramones as being different from older rock like say Led Zeppelin. I will say by the time we get to bands like Minor Threat we have genuinely new song structural paradigms that never existed in rock music.
And to say nothing of course of the mechanical finesse and stamina required to play this kind of music.
Yes and why do you think that is. Constant crying wolf means moderate persons are slowly feeling the word antisemite lose all meaning and therefore the real antisemites are gaining room to legitimise themselves.
Part of the game played here by the people that hate Jews is to attack the meaning of this word and they are being successful at it. Distortion of words and language is part of the tool set used by the anti-Israel camp here. The anti-Israel camp, which is also (broadly) antisemitic, is intentionally fueling antisemitism while pushing the argument that it's not antisemitism because it's really anti-Zionism or anti-Israel.
For countries like Iran and Qatar Israel should not exist because it's Jewish and Jews should not live in the Middle East because it's Muslim land. In their eyes there is no confusion that these are all the same thing. Only in those eyes of said "moderate" people.
No that's complete nonsense. In today's era actual antisemites won't need guesswork to locate, they'd openly vomit out a salad of zog, greedy bastards, traitors, that 109 country bs, holocaust denialism, etc etc. AIPAC for example has made the calculation that accusing moderate non-racists of antisemitism is much more effective than doing anything about actual hardcore antisemites whom they ignore. Actions like this are the reason words like ZOG are slowly becoming used in the mainstream. The accusation of antisemitism is losing all meaning.
Arabic countries didn't have much trouble coexisting with native jews. You might be overlooking the minor point of shipping Europeans en-masse into a place and displacing people who lived there before natively.
Arabic countries barely tolerated Jews as second class citizens under Islamic rule. That is the truth. What you're regurgitating here is the nonsense. If life was so great for the Jews under Arabic rulers where are the communities of Syria, Lebanon, Egypt, Jordan, Iraq? How many Jews are left in those places? Zero.
So the fairy tale put forward by today's antisemites that you are echoing is historically false and nonsense. That's not to say there were some better periods for some Jews in some areas but as a rule they were still discriminated against, persecuted, and obviously never have the ability to determine their own future or to restore their historical homeland.
I'm not aware of any particular AIPAC policy on this topic so I only have to guess this is some other antisemitic fable. When we see holocaust denial happening right in front of our eyes by maybe people you call "moderate non-racists" then we are going to call that out. Holocaust denial is a strategy of the Palestinians because they believe that the world supports Israel's right to exist as a result of the bad things that happened to Jews by the hands of the German(tm). So their approach to that is to diminish the holocaust and compare it to their own "suffering" (which is another form of diminishing). Some Palestinian leaders like Mahmoud Abbas are outright holocaust deniers and their "opinions" are popular amongst their people: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2023/sep/07/palestinian-pr...
"shipping Europeans en-masse into a place and displacing people who lived there before natively." -> never happened. Jewish people that migrated to present day Israel did not displace anyone. The displacement that happened in 1948 happened as a result of the war that was started against Israel. "Europeans" meaning Jewish people who also lived there natively, just farther back in history.
See if you talk like this about e.g. Chinese immigration to Vancouver, Canada, and you say they came and displaced the white people who lived there (or the first nations or whatnot). Then you are immediately labelled, correctly, a racist. But it's ok to talk like that about Jewish refugees with nowhere to go, persecuted in Europe, who immigrated to a place they have immense historical connection to, did so legally, wanted to coexist peacefully with in a free and democratic society with everyone in the region, and then when brutally attacked by people who would not accept their right to be there defended themselves.
The accusation of antisemitism isn't really losing its meaning. It still means exactly what it meant. Those people who are being accused are actually antisemites. They are not "moderate non-racists". They are totally racist.
EDIT: So I don't know anything about you. Where you're from. Where you've absorbed your "knowledge" about the middle east and the Jewish people from. But you are repeating some story or narrative you've heard somewhere and that narrative is totally racist. Maybe you're not aware of it but it still is. This is exactly what racism and antisemitism looks like not like what you describe.
I just fed your reply into an LLM as a sanity check and asked whether that reply is antisemitic or racist and got this evaluation: "The statement you’ve shared is a complex mix of political critique and rhetoric that, in several places, moves beyond standard political debate and into the territory of established antisemitic tropes."
It goes on to say: ""The Accusation is Losing All Meaning" This is a common rhetorical tactic. While one can certainly debate whether specific organizations overreach in their definitions of antisemitism, using that debate to excuse or explain away the rise of terms like "ZOG" shifts the blame for bigotry onto the victims of that bigotry."
"European "Mass Shipping"
Referring to the Jewish population in Israel solely as "Europeans" ignores the fact that:
Over half of Israel’s Jewish population are Mizrahi (descendants of Jews from the Middle East and North Africa).
Jews are indigenous to the Levant; describing them exclusively as European colonizers is a way of delegitimizing their historical and ancestral ties to the region."
Llms are llms they will reflect status quo thinking in politics, a status quo that is shifting now.
Why the fuck would I have a problem with Chinese immigration to Canada and how the fuck would it be remotely equivalent to European jews forcibly being put on a land at the behest of a colonial power initially then their own terrorism to pressure the brits later? Immigrants to modern Canada have come with legal permission and are peacefully coexisting with the locals as equals. They didn't annex or displace anyone.
>Jews are indigenous to the Levant
The people already living there were much more indigenous than someone who married europeans for hundreds of generations.
This of course brings us to a funny point. Why do you feel a need to defend israelis on the basis of genetics? Its just a country, anyone ofany race should be able to immigrate right? If not then what do you want to say, that it is an ethnostate? If it's an ethnostate what is your opinion on forming an Aryan ethnostate? Do you have a problem with that?
And regarding genetic roots there. If I have 99% Nigerian and 1% French what would you say if I tried to tell you I am French, France is my ancestral land and I need to displace the fake people living in France currently?
I didn't say anything about local jews and arab jews. I am talking about slavic and german etc jews. They don't even look like anyone local. If you showed a photo without any religious garb people would say this person is white.
Again why this both waysing of Israel as simultaneously both a ethnic state for jews and as a liberal secular state? Pick a lane.
I don't give a shit about race, nationalism, religion anyone should be able to move anywhere as long as they aren't harming others. Israels origin and continued present action fails the latter test.
Yes and its much more rational to see that the invaders are natural born liars and they installed puppet dictatorships while talking "democracy" and very literally a few days ago backstabbed and invaded you while in the pretense of doing peace negotiations. Logically for an Iranian the most rational response would be to always kill Americans or Israelis in this case.
War is about achieving political ends, which killing may or may not be instrumental towards. It's very unclear to me whether Iran's killing of Americans and Israelis, either directly via missiles or via their proxies, had realized any benefits for the nation of Iran, let alone for the average Iranian.
American and Israeli soldiers are invading Iran currently. So just like standard procedure for any war, killing as many enemy combatants as possible is the point and beneficial for Iran as it aids toward repelling the invasion. America at least can be pressured to withdraw as the general populace is ambivalent about the war.
I hate communism but why faslely single it out, global any group or system will want to control resources as much as possible. You seem extremely stupid to the point of believing nazism was about opposing communism fundamentally rather than antisemitism and racialism.
Again as an avowed capitalist, race is the opposite of good capitalism. I will gladly trade with anyone of any race.
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