>Mexican culture is ingrained deeply into America and we are all better for it.
How is this the case? Multiculturalism is not necessarily a good thing.
I'm reminded of Thiel's The Diversity Myth. We no longer question whether some of these statements are true. Diversity is not necessarily a good thing and sometimes it can actually be detrimental by allowing for the tolerance of mediocre standards in a society.
Uber has provided enormous value to consumers everywhere. The efficiency Uber has brought to consumers greatly outweighs any perceived inefficiencies. I attribute it to the great leadership style of Travis Kalanick.
I think Travis receives a lot of backlash because of envy. Many a people think Uber is a stupidly simple idea that they themselves could have done and as such hate on Travis for doing it first, fast and well.
It is 'easy' if you have money to break the law. Most of the people don't. I have thousands of good ideas that would bring in a lot of money and in many cases would be beneficial to people if I could break the law and call it disruption or whatever is the buzzword they are using.
I'd like to know why anyone thinks America owes anyone anything?
The ban is absolutely necessary. You Americans have a great country but you're going to ruin it if you don't take your time to listen to Trump.
There is no way that unchecked immigration is a good thing for any country in the world let alone America.
I've heard what has been said about how immigration made America what it is today - great. However, immigration should be based on whether the immigrant will add value to your country. If an immigrant is coming to set up a business, do further studies and other positive things like that, then by all means provide them with a way to come in.
However, if there's a threat of terrorism from the immigrant or if they aren't adding value but will instead be recipients of welfare all I can ask is, WHAT THE HELL IS GOING ON?
How can you sustain this? You cannot save everyone in the world. You just can't. The best you can do is help them from a camp in their own country and even then, it's your choice as a country that has fair elections.
Why did you even have these elections if you're going to disallow the president that you yourselves chose in FAIR elections to do his jobs. Is there anything new that Trump is doing that he did not promise his voters he would do? If not, then you're saying that the majority of the people that chose Trump don't deserve to be heard and that only your views matter.
And don't even get me started on that business of, 'we didn't vote for him...he didn't get the popular vote'.
Why is it okay for previous presidents who won in the electoral college to be legitimized but not Trump? This is absolutely UNFAIR and selfish of anti-Trumpians. Remember, you take away California and Trump actually wins the popular vote anyway. To me, this is a clear indication that one state wants to bully the rest of the country into doing things their way and their way only. So UNFAIR.
Without getting into my country of origin, I will tell you this; we too are building a wall to stop illegal aliens from a neighboring Muslim country from getting in. These fundamentalists are really terrible human beings. We have lost so many lives to their suicide attacks. Friends and families losing their loved ones to these actions. I remember a time we were so scared of the attacks that we had to close offices in the daytime when working and verify you knew who was knocking on the door before letting them in. It was a terrible time and with a recent attack, last week to more precise, the fear is coming back. I just wish we had finished putting up our wall by now and that it was as strong as the proposed American one.
People have to be responsible for their own country. They have to build their own countries and stop the fundamentalism.
In what way does the U.S. have "unchecked immigration"?
Edit: also, you have a bizarrely pessimistic view of immigrants' and refugees' potential to contribute to their host country. My parents were part of the flood of refugees that came after the fall of Saigon. Like the incoming Syrians today, they were taken in by American families and lived off of welfare for years. Now they, and their children, contribute to the nation's bottom-line, never mind the goodwill that America incurs by taking in people of need.
There are always trade-offs. For every good immigrants such as your folks, there are those who are utterly destructive. This is just a fact. Therefore, you cannot be careless about who comes into your country. Some people just don't want the same things that you do. They prefer chaos because after death, they will meet their maker and get rewarded for their fundamentalism.
It then becomes a question of, do you accept the downside if the upside is as mundane as perceived goodwill. I think not.
I repeat, not all can be saved and for that matter, not all want to be saved. Some of them actually hate America and as soon as they are in, they will hurt Americans on purpose.
Here's a woman who was travelling from Costa Rica to Scotland. The flight stops in the US. She had a correct transit visa. She was stoppend because of Trump's ban.
How do you suppose you can deal with radicalized immigrants if you're indiscriminate about immigration?
It is a temporary ban first of all.
Secondly, it is not just about security. It is also about welfare.
I'm not a proponent of welfare but if you must have it, then you cannot possibly combine that with unrestricted immigration because the logical outcome of that is a population full of immigrants on welfare voting themselves more welfare. Is that how America was built? No. It was built by hard working intelligent people to a country that is the envy of many today.
What makes you think immigrants just come to vote "themselves more welfare"? Many groups of immigrants and refugees start off poor. I don't know where you learned about America, but we have enough resources that things aren't a zero sum game between immigrants and current citizens.
First of all, anyone can learn about anything now. Everything is everywhere now so you cannot lie to anyone about what America is like or what it isn't like. I suggest you forfeit that line of argument.
Secondly, riddle me this; do more immigrants vote for the party that promises more government welfare or less government welfare? I don't even know where you're going with this.
Finally, no one believes that resources aren't finite and as such it isn't a zero-sum game more than I do. However, when you have speak of how the wealthy/corporations should pay more taxes and those taxes should go to fund more welfare...clearly that's a mindset that says things are scarce and that it is a zero-sum game. One party says expropriate from producers to fund welfare the other says reduce regulation and taxes to incentivise more production. One has a producer mindset, the other has a consumer mindset.
Doesn't that mean something to you? It is no wonder many democrats want even more immigrants. Look at a state such as California...
27% of California's population was foreign born, about twice the US percentage.
Don't you think these politicians are aware of this and it is undoubtedly the reason they want even more immigrants? It has nothing to do with caring for other humans for them. It is all about increasing the number of democrats as much as possible irregardless of whether it is good for the country or not. Don't let them take you for a ride.
>Steve Jobs was the son of Syrian immigrants
These occurrences will be there from time to time but look at how and when these immigrants came to America.
There was a time when it was much harder to come to America and that meant that only the best people went to America. Not just everyone and anyone. The DV lottery program was the beginning of the end for the right kind of immigration to America.
When I look at the caliber of people that actually made it to America from my country before this was introduced, man, they were smart, hardworking and any country losing them to America felt the pinch. Now, the DV program has been sending just about anyone regardless of whether they were adding value to America. It is an indicator that it is on longer understood that even though immigration is good, it is only as good as the caliber of people you let in.
Who should be let in you ask? Those seeking education, expatriates, entrepreneurs, scientists etc. Not everyone.
> There was a time when it was much harder to come to America and that meant that only the best people went to America. Not just everyone and anyone. The DV lottery program was the beginning of the end for the right kind of immigration to America.
The diversity visa lottery program requires that you have a high school diploma and come from a country that has sent very small numbers of people to America. And the DV lottery includes only 50,000 winners. Are you aware of how large America's population is, and how small 50,000 people is relative to the U.S. and to the size of normal annual immigration?
Yes, the point of the diversity visa is to add diversity to the immigrant pool, so that it isn't totally dominated by Asia and Latin America, because the U.S. has had historical success with diversity.
>Are you aware of how large America's population is, and how small 50,000 people is relative to the U.S. and to the size of normal annual immigration?
That is not the point. I'm simply stating that lately America has been less strict with the caliber of immigrants allowed in and the DV program best exemplifies it.
Yes, it is the point. You're claiming that America's DV program is emblematic of how standards have fallen, as if there were a golden age in American immigration. You talk about how America was built by intelligent hard-working immigrants. Yes, it was, but those immigrants wouldn't have been let in with your mentality. How many of the millions of Italian and Irish immigrants during the late 19th century were college graduates? My understanding is that most of them arrived on American shores as extremely poor. Same with the Chinese during that time. Since you aren't American, maybe you weren't aware that one of America's golden ages was in the 1940s and 1950s, and those late 19th century immigrants would have played a large part in that.
Similarly, war refugees from the 1970s through the 1980s were not particularly high "caliber", and certainly not self-sufficient enough to survive without hundreds of millions in American government aid, nevermind the generosity of American families and churches in providing sponsorship.
Again, you're not from America, so maybe it's hard to understand that America is lucky enough to have the resources and geographical placement so that immigration can be a net benefit rather than a zero-sum drag on society. You seem to think that there is no regulation of immigration at all, when in fact, it has been the subject of several laws that specify the annual composition and allowance, and these are things based on the study of history and economic realities. And also, observations that American families are happier when they've been reunited, which is why family-based visas are a large part of the annual allocation [0]
I suggest you understand that just because "anyone can learn about anything now" doesn't mean that you yourself have fulfilled that promise. For example, you seem to misunderstand the notion of welfare. The mindset behind it is not zero-sum, it's quite the opposite. The hope and expectation is that those who need welfare get the helping hand they need to establish themselves. Again, I can speak from personal experience growing up with food stamps, and now living and working in Silicon Valley.
How do you suppose you can deal with radicalized immigrants if you're indiscriminate about immigration?
I don't think it's fair to describe the current situation as indiscriminate. There are existing limits. One can reasonably argue whether they're appropriate or adequate or effective, but to imply that there are no limits or vetting at all is disingenuous.
It may not be so as it is but left to the devices of Trump's detractors, the ultimate goal is to be as limitless as you can.
Even if that isn't the case, can you honestly say we live in times where we can ignore that more needs to be done? To me, it is absolutely binary; either you think more should be done or you don't.
The real debate here is whether Trump's ban constitutes doing what's necessary and I say yes.
If you expect others to engage you in nuanced discussion, you need to do so yourself, which not only means being more careful with language like "indiscriminate", but also includes avoiding sweeping generalizations like "left to the devices of Trump's detractors, the ultimate goal is to be as limitless as you can."
All around are accusations of "they're not listening to us", "they don't really understand the problem", "they don't realize the logical conclusion of their positions". A lot of people are barely talking at each other, much less actually with each other.
I can — and do — honestly say we live in times where we need to spend a lot more effort in listening and understanding each other, as people, as opposed to partisans.
Like I said, it's a temporary ban to allow the President and his team to figure things such as these out.
It is also an edge case that can be overlooked because there are other routes to get to her desired destination.
She is an Iranian. You and I don't know her. We cannot speak to her credibility. We cannot even speak to the credibility of an actual American who goes to Iran and comes back after a spending some time there let alone hers. How can you know whether she is radicalized unless you're absolutely careful about who comes into your country? These things are happening and cannot be sugarcoated or denied any longer. Something must be done and I for one am glad that Trump is setting such a great example for all other countries.
You're insane. Could you kindly point out any terrorist acts in the US by any citizen of any of the nationalities now banned?
If you want Trump to "be an example for other countries", how should the woman ever get to Costa Rica, considering Costa Rica <-> Iran is probably not popular enough to warrant a direct flight?
How exactly is a woman that is not allowed to exit the terminal, and has been through three metal detectors a risk to America?
Considering there has been no single incident with any terrorists from the nations in the last 30 years (yeah, I just spoiled the answer for the first question, sorry), would I be expecting too much when asking why nobody thought to pick up the phone and ask immigrations "If I were to ban people from country X, is there anything I should keep in mind". After all, it took DHS less than 6 hours to identify ambiguities with regards to green cards and visas.
No name calling please. I'm very much sane and the furthest thing from a deplorable so to speak.
Please tell me we're not ignoring that most terrorism is Muslim affiliated.
That, coupled with the fact that there have been many attacks all over the world by Muslim terrorists leads me to ask a simple question, does it then not make sense to ban people from largely Muslim countries until more can be done to thwart these attacks?
Should nothing be done according to you?
As for that woman, that is an edge case and it can be tolerated for now until travelers on transit can be isolated more carefully in the future. For now, the ban must be employed because more important things are at stake here i.e. security.
>How exactly is a woman that is not allowed to exit the terminal
>If you want Trump to "be an example for other countries", how should the woman ever get to Costa Rica, considering Costa Rica <-> Iran is probably not popular enough to warrant a direct flight?
I would suggest that they be stopped before coming to America in the first place. Let them use another route until authorities can figure out what the hell is going on. America is after all high on extremists' target priority lists.
Don't use this small instance of this woman to discredit the entire ban on these 7 nations' emigrants.
Not sure if you're aware of this but America has a Department of Homeland Security as well as USCIS, both funded to the tune of billions of dollars to provide screening of the immigration process. There is a lot more than "nothing" that has been done to regulate immigration before Trump's executive order.
Clearly whatever is being done is insufficient and that's why there are attacks by Islamists. As such Trump has decided to be more proactive. He needs more support and accolades for being brave enough to do what's needed even though it is controversial.
Do you want America to be like France where because of insufficient immigration controls they get an attack every so often from these Islamic immigrants?
> Clearly whatever is being done is insufficient and that's why there are attacks by Islamists.
If, as the parent is hinting, there have been few-to-no attacks by immigrant Islamists (and few attacks by Islamists of any stripe) in the US, I don't see how it's remotely clear that "whatever is being done is insufficient". What the hell does "sufficient" look like?
> Do you want America to be like France where because of insufficient immigration controls they get an attack every so often from these Islamic immigrants?
Personally? Maybe. If the cost of getting rid of it was zero, then no, of course not. But I choose to bear much higher risks because I don't like the trade-offs necessary to eliminate them. There is no reason this should be different.
But its been established, nothing is going on. Except for fear-mongering at the highest levels. Its a circus, designed to distract from the real crimes, which are stealing the entire US economy out from under us.
Okay, I'm with you. A lot of Trump's behavior during the campaign and leading up to the inauguration can be interpreted in this way as well.
from the real crimes,
It's been (just over) a week since the inauguration. I'm sure I could have missed something. The only thing I can think of right now is the emoluments-related matters, and other conflicts of interest. The Executive Order stuff is pretty nasty as well, and looks to be the beginning of a judicial (and perhaps congressional) fight, arguably a crime, but that remains to be seen.
which are stealing the entire US economy out from under us.
Okay, now I'm not following at all. What am I missing? I plead naiveté and ignorance and throw myself at the mercy of the court.
After soaking up 99% of American wealth in the last 20 years, the new cabinet consisting of Wall Street executives (among the friends and family) is designed to scrape up any morsels left to the rest of us.
>which are stealing the entire US economy out from under us.
How so?
The only stealing going on is that targeted at the wealthy. High taxes and innumerable regulations are an atrocity. Inflation is even more atrocious.
However, here's what Keynesian economics proponents never get; even though you try to rob the rich by currency devaluation, you end up doing quite the opposite and that is actually hurt the poor who are the worst affected by inflation all while saying that in the end, we're all dead anyway.
Why would I ask that? Because I wonder if you actually know. You said you weren't from America, so I can understand if most of your knowledge about America comes from the news, rather than a view of the facts over a timeframe longer than last week.
I mean, to equate America with France, as if geography and economics had nothing to do with immigration, makes me think that you come in with flawed assumptions about how the world works.
>You said you weren't from America, so I can understand if most of your knowledge about America comes from the news, rather than a view of the facts over a timeframe longer than last week.
Surely that's a low blow or as Watson might phrase it, a wang bang and you know it.
I already said I'm not an American. I do however support Trump. I read many of his books right out of high school and I'm re-reading The Art of the deal.
I see a global shift to the right wing going forward. I mean can you believe that in France the Socialist party stands no chance because even the French, yes the French cannot stand what the left has done.
I'm glad people from all races have woken up and are saying no to unrestricted immigration, no to excessive taxes and regulation, no to welfare states, and no to egalitarianism. Luckily, this transcends racism. It is about reason as Ayn Rand would put it.
Yes but all others weren't legitimized because of the popular vote. It was because of the electoral college. If ever there was a problem with the current system, you should have fixed it then and not complain now that Trump won.
It seems like it is not virtuous in wanting to help the 500+ men and women succeed in our capital.
Tracking a persons actions or promises is used to terminate employees. Tracking (personal / individual level ) is not used - especially sharing ones results with others - to improve a process or reduce a cost etc...
If this is just about the assumption that trump will fail or needs to be removed from office, then the energy should be spent on that sole task
Terms limits are magic. I first heard Ken Langone talk about it so vehemently and the more I looked into it the more I realized that it would be a good thing. Having a larger pool of public officials to choose from over time allows for experimentation to see what(read who) works and what doesn't.
It's going to be an interesting 4 years ahead. May be even 8.
I'm not a big fan of some of the positions that Bill gates has taken on political issues lately(such as increased taxes) but there's something he said about why America beat Japan in the computing industry that I can draw parallels on. Apparently, Japan's take was that there was only one way to pursue the PC industry. One strategy, one platform. America on the other hand allowed for a multi-pronged approach trying out different hardware and software combinations to see what works and letting the market determine the final outcome. America won, Japan lost.
If we must have public officials (and I don't think we should have quite as many but that's a topic for another day), then it would be better to have a way to quickly isolate the ones who don't deliver and remove them for good before more damage is done. If something they did works, we can pick other officials who promise to build on what the previous officials had done.
Congress has an incredibly low approval rating. I can't imagine we could do much to make it worse.. why not try experimenting in order to make it better?
Congress has a low approval rating because people mkstly disapprove of the choices made by people electing the 532 members that they don't get to vote. Individual members in their own district (for the House) or state (for the Senate) tend to have very good approval ratings.
The one way you could make Congress worse is to make it so that people didn't get the members they want in the elections they do vote in because their choices are even more restricted than they are now, while still hating the choices everyone else makes.
Term limits for Congress would be one way of achieving that.
What exactly do you find wrong with Common Core standards? All I've seen against it are poorly-graded homework examples turned meme without proper context.
I think it's extremely dangerous when the federal government dictates almost all aspects of how people should lead their lives especially when it comes to education where there's always a threat of indoctrination on large scale. Communities should be able to set their own standards. People aren't as dumb as that; such that federal government shepherding is required at every turn.
Common Core was neither developed nor mandated by the federal government, it is adopted as a mandate by numerous states independently, and developed as an initiative sponsored by the National Governors Association and the Council of Chief State School Officers.
The federal government dictates very little of the substance of what is taught in schools.
True and thank the Almighty for that, but the general direction is towards that. The main issue of contention here is centralization. Once that is done, it becomes easier for the federal govt to take it over. I don't want anything that remotely resembles that.
U.S. President Barack Obama and U.S. Secretary of Education Arne Duncan announced the Race to the Top competitive grants on July 24, 2009, as a motivator for education reform. To be eligible, states had to adopt "internationally benchmarked standards and assessments that prepare students for success in college and the work place."[15] Though states could adopt other college- and career-ready standards and still be eligible, they were awarded extra points in their Race to the Top applications if they adopted the Common Core standards by August 2, 2010.
Until the Every Student Succeeds Act was passed in December 2015, the US Department of Education had encouraged states to adopt the Common Core Standards by tying the grant of waivers from the No Child Left Behind Act to adoption of the Standards.
Yes, the States were offered extra funding for adopting the Common Core. They were not forced to take it, but who doesn't want a few million dollars, right?
Doesn't the federal government have enough on its plate? It seems like this insatiable beast that won't stop until it has taken over every last bit of personal liberty and freedom including what and how to think. That is the fear.
People truly are "that dumb" at the community level- at least the sorts of people elected to local educatipn boards. Even at the state level, we've seen disastrous anti-evolution, anti-climate change education agendas attempted to be pushed through, not to mention highly politicized conservative historical revisionism, just within the last 16 years. Common core is a good idea for several reasons, not least that.
Ideas (you can call them opinions if you'd like, it makes no difference) backed by scientific inquiry, consensus, and fact are the ones we should be teaching, end of story. The educational system is an intrinsic aspect of our society and has an enormous impact on the well-being of our societies and planet. It's am essential life goal of mine and of many others in science to work to improve and protect it. People opposed to an educational system that values scientific thinking and literacy have lost battles for the last 600 years and will continue to do so.
I couldn't have said it better myself. Sovereignty is the only barrier between you and a global government that turns tyrannical. If you can't run away from a bad government when you need to, you'll be in deep doo-doo.
For me, the optimal outcome is actually as much secession as possible - to a state or county level. With so many options in place, people can self-select into what fits their style and culture. This would be, in my view, a recipe for increased global peace. It is when forced integration is in place that conflict emerges.
Is this not true? Humans aren't equal. Some people are tall and others short, some are smart and others aren't, some are talented in certain ways and others in different ways. We can't all swim like Phelps and assuming you're a coder, Phelps probably can't code like you. There's nothing wrong with that. I think majority of human beings have something distinct that they can offer and what differentiates how successful one becomes is the graft one puts in. There's never been a greater time to showcase one's talents if sufficient effort is applied.
>They are, have always been, classist
Going back to my earlier point; we aren't equal. Some people will have the will to put in more time, money and effort. This naturally leads to class distinctions and a natural order. You want to entrust a company's leadership, for instance, on the most qualified individuals, not just anyone for the purposes of egalitarian sentiments. If this is the case, you MUST admit that people are different and that some are more qualified than others. This is not to say that one class should act in ways that would harm any other class.
As for the OPs submission, I don't agree with and sort of state or federal intervention. To me, it is wrong. Market forces should indeed determine what gets adopted as an energy source, be it coal or renewable.
How is this the case? Multiculturalism is not necessarily a good thing.
I'm reminded of Thiel's The Diversity Myth. We no longer question whether some of these statements are true. Diversity is not necessarily a good thing and sometimes it can actually be detrimental by allowing for the tolerance of mediocre standards in a society.